What does the word SUBMIT mean to YOU?
SUBMIT
— ORIGIN Latin submittere, from mittere ‘send, put’
This a cool place to look at words.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/note5index.html
Why hasn’t Milly really brought God into this?
Andreia and Danny most likely have an idea of my COC beliefs. I have yet to really bring God into it because it’s not yet time for me to bring Him in. If you wonder about facts look, dig, seek for the answers so that you can find a definition of yourself. Yes, that’s a Millyism as I learn I grow into who I am who I will be and find out who I want to be.
Submit to me in a marriage is to allow for my husband to have leadership with me. It is to allow him to be a man in our home. I have seen homes where the woman is the strong force and the man is the weakest the children resent it and they choose mates unwisely. I’m his wife not his slave. He does house work as I do. We are in charge of the household equally. He is a strong presence in our home I don’t belittle him.
21 comments:
Well, As far as my study of it goes, it simply means to "be under obedience" to someone.
In Eph. 5:21 it says, "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."
It should be like a contest of one person trying to put himself under the other. And the other trying to do the same.
I submit to you.
No. I submit to you
No. I submit to YOU
etc...etc...etc...
That is a far cry from what is common to this world's way of thinking: Get on top at all costs!
Hmmmm.
If I put Ellen's definition with Danny Kaye's verse, I get logical contradictions. Ellen's definition is, it goes without saying, correct. Still, definitions 1 and 2 cannot apply because they are hierarchical. Definitions 3, 4, and 6 are possible, but not natural. Definition 5 is the easiest fit.
I think I like definition #4 best. To place myself under another's control.
A quick look at the Greek concordance shows every instance of hupotasso to be interpretable as definition 1 or 6. I don't see any evidence that the word is ever used in a weak form. In the KJV, it is almost always translated "subject," as in "subject yourself...".
This appears to be a very strong word.
Codepoke,
I like subject yourself. When we subject ourselves we are open to each other
Complete submission to another person is difficult to comprehend. Surely we realize that we can only be subject to a person as long as they don't use that position to destroy us physically, mentally, or destroy our relationship to Jesus.
The willingness to submit to another person is one thing, but submitting when that person is using your submission to control you unjustly, just doesn't seem appropriate.
A Christian woman may submit to her husband, but if the husband takes advantage of the situation, is she suppose to just set quietly with folded-hands and acknowledge full submission regardless of the circumstances?
Being in submission to the elders is very important, but if the elders start teaching false doctrine are we to continue our submission, or do we challenge their teachings, and reevaluate our submissive roles.
Fully submitting to God requires little thought (for me at least,) we know He will always lead us the right direction, and can fully trust His decisions. Submission to another person, while important, must be tempered with a little common sense.
Now you can all jump me for being an un submissive bum. :)
Yes, Ellen, I read the same 49 instances between my 2 comments.
ellen,
Patience I’m setting it up and it’s my site.
Larry,
What a good response Dude.
Thank you Danny Kaye! I was about to post something similar and then I realized you said it all. It reminds me of the two cartoon characters (chipmunks, I think) that try to out-polite each other. I cant think of their names right now. Someone help me out?
I like concrete lessons so is anyone willing to share how this whole submission thing works in their marriage?
I can honestly say that my husband and I dont have an issue with submission. I did not pledge to obey him either. We seek mutual agreement and we both yield to each other. I even asked him if that was true before writing this. (does that count as submission?)
I was wondering if anyone would share their real life workings of this and help illuminate why this is always such a hot topic!???
Andreia,
I too had obey taken out. As for submit Larry did a good job on that. My husband and I submit to each other. He isn’t treated as a wimp in our marriage nor does he treat me like a slave. We ask of not demand of. It’s a hot topic because people think it mean to give up freedom to say no and to have someone force them to do something they want. That won’t work for a happy relationship.
I know a couple that happens to be related to me. They practice "mutual submission".
That's cheating, Ellen. You are taking a couple who have apparent interpersonal problems, and making them an example of a philosophy with which you disagree. Very low form of argument.
If you look into the 26th edition of the Nestle Aland Greek text, the word hupotasso is not used in v.22, so v.22 would literally read: Wives, to your husbands as to the Lord.
In contrast, in v.25, husbands are commanded to love their wives with an imperative, nothing less, agapate- in the way that Christ has loved the church and has gave himself up for her, so a husband should also love his wife in the same and give himself up for her. Now, that is even a stronger submission, don't you say?
Could it be that it is more natural for a woman to submit to her husband, so Paul only had to mention it by passing, but when talking to men, he knows he would have to be hard on them.
My husband and I have been talking about getting a dog. We dont need one. We have four kids. The kids want one. I understand their desire as I grew up with dogs.
My husband is not dead-set against it, he just acknowledges that everyone is busy. Our last dogs (God bless em) ate $500 worth of pool equipment and the siding off our house.
So this morning as I was making his breakfast (submission?), he came in kissed me and told me that given that I was now Islam he was afraid of me and so he was going to bend to our wishes.
Thanks Ellen, you provided us with the best laugh we have had in a long time.
Ellen,
You have yet to tell us what your household was like In fact the only thing that I have actually gotten from reading your post on your husband was this:
My marriage had not been great and I was looking into a future of great unknowns.
My husband had never really shared household responsibilities (not just housework, I mean taking care of cars, the budget, school stuff - many times I felt like I was a single person who happened to have a husband). Now, I was taking care of even more.
Bluntly, the only thing that had ever worked really well (consistently) was the bedroom area. And now, that was not working. (I found out later that when the liver gets involved in pathology, that type of dysfunction is very common.)
On one hand, I remember feeling more like a wife than I ever had before. Art had never let me share in helping him. Oh, of course I could do all of the stuff that needed to be taken care of around the house, but Art would not let me close enough to help Art. Now, he had to and that was very fulfilling for me.
Excuse my phraseology. I married a partner in life. He is the man of our home as I am the woman. You have chosen arguments where arguments aren’t. It is a discussion.
Danny Kaye and I may not have made for good spouses in a marriage he might have allowed me stand up comedy. Traveling all the time while he worked and raised our children Harpo and Trey. Where as Codepoke would have put his foot down and pointed out that little Harpo and Trey needed me and him to be in the house.
How we set our marriage up before marriage is important to the survival to our marriage. My husband and I talked about how we wanted to run our marriage. However, as some know it doesn’t always go as well as planned. You have to submit to each other. You are united as one. You must submit together.
My man doesn’t want all of our burdens laid on his shoulders. He wants us to be united as one.
Ellen
Im sorry if my comments were rude. It was not your beliefs that were funny. It was that my husband and I do not think of our relationship as anything that would mimic the battle between Islam and Peace. My comment was really about how we came to agreement without any real struggle.
I shouldnt have shared the story as it came across incorrectly. Again, I am sorry.
andreia,
What kind of dog are you getting?
My dog now has a pet bird. It waits for her to come out then sings as she barks. I have to get it on video. She is a large black and silver German Shepherd with a very high prey drive. She would also eat you pool stuff.
Ellen,
I doubt that andreia was making fun of your beliefs. You did come here and chose to make this stand. I think that you have very much added to the conversation and we all thank you for that. Without you it would have been a group of people agreeing for the most part. I love to poke the bee’s nest at times by asking Really are you sure? Or I think your wrong? I just cannot be offended when someone disagrees. Remember as Codepoke has pointed out you have to be careful (not an exact quote) I made a joke about a book that I honestly wanted to read and he was worried that I was upset. I too was worried about him. See we don’t get to look at the face of the person and if you haven’t read their stuff and comments you might not know them very well.
Danny Kaye and I joke. Andreia is a very strong and fun lady she is proud to be a mom and a woman, she has a great sense of self worth and her husband loves who she is. Codepoke is serious most of the time but knows a good elephant joke. (My daughter laughed hard.)
You need to read who we are so that you know how to respond to us. I don’t think any of us want to hurt any one. These people are good Christians and seek knowledge in Christ. I’m happy to call them friends.
ellen,
As I said and will say again,
I think that you have very much added to the conversation and we all thank you for that. Without you it would have been a group of people agreeing for the most part. I love to poke the bee’s nest at times by asking Really are you sure? Or I think your wrong? I just cannot be offended when someone disagrees.
Ellen,
(If you are still playing?)
Codepoke, I don't believe it's cheating because it's way more common than people like to see.
Ah. I agree that it is a common interpersonal problem, but it is still an interpersonal problem. I grew up in a house with a non-functioning father. He was one incredible man, but he worked between 90 and 110 hours per week. (If anyone thinks I work a little bit, I for one cannot be impressed.) I never really knew him. My mother was and is a highly domineering person, so she ruled everything while setting my father as the absolute head of the household.
It was decades before I figured out how messed up things were. So, yes, I know that there are vast numbers of people out there who claim to be true complementarians, but who are not. I will never use their hypocrisy as an argument against complementarianism.
In the same way, to use these people who claim to be egalitarian but are really just dysfunctional is a poor argument against egalitarianism.
Read this - please and seriously - read the article
Yep. She paints a pretty ugly picture of herself. I'm sure we both know couples who can top her ugliness, though. The problem is very real, and we agree that it is caused by sin. We just don't agree what the sin is.
Is the answer is male authority or mutual submission? Does a biblical man submit himself to his wife?
Obviously, I think you are on shakier scriptural ground than you do. Of course, you don't believe I have a leg to stand on, but that's cool too. :-) I'm still having fun, and looking forward to Milly's next post.
Maeghan,
husbands are commanded to love their wives with an imperative, nothing less, agapate ... Now, that is even a stronger submission, don't you say?
...when talking to men, he knows he would have to be hard on them.
Very cool observations, Maeghan. Thank you!
I'm going to refer to my post "It Got an A" in the March archive of my blog. I don't want to be redundant on Milly's blog--
DK, you brought up Eph. 5:21. I like your interpretation and would like to add that it is usually quoted as a stand alone verse when it needs to be read and understood contextually.
Being submissive in marriage is not the answer to rudeness and harsh behavior. Being filled with the Spirit is.
I have also learned the hard way that having a discussion about submission in marriage is fruitless until Gen. 1,2,&3 are thoroughly understood.
But, respecting that this is Milly's space,and she asked a question--
In this fallen world, we have been offered the gift of oneness in marriage. It is a sacred tie that binds me to one man
on this earth. We
hupatosso one another according to Eph. 5:21. He is the only man to whom I am "ezer kinegdo."
(Eph. 5:22--"wives with your own husbands.")
patchouli,
Being submissive in marriage is not the answer to rudeness and harsh behavior. Being filled with the Spirit is.
I like that, because when we are filled we are loving.
Welcome :-}
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