Wednesday, July 12, 2006

What If. . .

I like to think what if a bit so here’s a what if story.

We, fellow bloggers, move into a small community and start a church. The men serve communion and the women teach Bible class to the children taking turns so that no one is burnt out. We’ve set a curriculum that all agree on. The men take turns preaching, and this gives us a different prospective every week. We all get along very well and yes there are loud discussions from time to time but we all love each other, when the men get a bit angry, as we sometimes do they take a walk to cool off.

Lawns are green and neat and cookouts plentiful. It’s a great life. We aren’t intrusive in each others lives so much that you feel like hiding.

On Wednesday nights we meet and have Bible studies and fellowship time with a dinner as a family together. On Sundays we all gather at a small meeting place that we built in the neighborhood.

Life is good.

Until . . .

The men are called up for duty, you’re young and you must defend our Nation.

Now what is to become of our church?

Our fellowship?

Who will decide what songs are to be sung?

Who will preach?

Should we, as women now go to a new church?

Are we now the heads of our households?


Danny Kaye said...

I love "what if's" I'll play.

I like the focus on community (and food! Heh-heh)

(It sounds like Codepoke has sold you on the idea of the Familyhood church. ;))

I think Blest would agree that even while the men are away protecting, defending, and serving, they are still the heads of the households.

But even if all the men are away prodecting our country, wouldn't that leave just the women? Women can teach, preach, lead...etc, other women without comprimisng Scripture.

Besides, I think it is not a stretch to think that there doesn't necessarily need to be a lesson every Sunday. Couldn't there just be some awesome fellowship and spiritual talk and a partaking of the Lord's Supper? Wouldn't that be awesome?!

Larry said...

Don't worry there will always be a bunch of old men left in your midst to take over the reigns and keep the women under control. :)

Discard the "small meeting place that we built," and the "lawns are green and neat," and I'm with you.

One COC in a small community near here had one man and 7-10 women on Sunday mornings. The man did absolutely everything, and the women were reduced to sitting in the pews as spectators.

Milly said...


I agree scripture wise Danny that the women are ok to lead as long as no men are in the room. What if we have a wounded one of you men back and he is unable to lead?

Where will that leave us?

Do we wheel poor Danny outside?

Military spouses find it rather difficult to make the transition back from being head of the household, we can rename it all we want but when they are gone we must take over. I have spoken to those that were left and they have to take the lead. Stepping to the side and getting the children to make the transition is difficult. You can’t have it any other way though you must take charge.


You are so right there would be some crusty old dude with shaky hands and a firm belief of leadership. It wouldn’t be my father he believes we are all equal, so someone else has moved dad in while her man is away.

You don’t like grass?

And it’s a nice place to meet the women like it because we made sure the kids have a place to play when needed, a class room, and they aren’t in our homes.

(You know how some people’s kids are. )

The man did absolutely everything, and the women were reduced to sitting in the pews as spectators.

The women still did some stuff right?

Danny Kaye said...

"The women still did some stuff right? "

Mary and Martha were workers with Jesus.
Priscilla and many others were workers with Paul.
You can bet your sweet bippy that Peter didn't do everything while his wife sat idley back.

And don't you dare wheel me out of any room where their is the potential for fellowship and encouragement. Or else.

I have no problem listening to a women speak. My wife and I often read books written by women to women. These women are not putting themselves in a position of authority over me. I choose to learn from them and am blest because of it. No man should be so foolish as not to listen to a women's perspective of Jesus and of life itself, (especially a husband)!

Milly said...

Now I will address the Familyhood Church. I am not opposed to that idea. Then again my man has been at the edge of burn out. Some days after listening to the complaints some of these folks have I'm ready to pitch it. I’m also in fear of something like that. These people would be like family and as all families do we would fight. I hate that, I hate arguing, I love a lively discussion, not an out and out fight.

Trying to put everyone together and leaving ones egos at the door. . . hard. That’s the honest truth we can’t seem to do it on Sundays at our churches and give it all to God. How could we do it when Larry, the guy who’s grass is brown and Danny who doesn’t own a lawn chair and all I can think is “Are you kidding me on this? One can’t grow grass and that one never brings anything but your family and a box of Little Debbie snack cakes to an event and now they want to tell me how to worship God..”

Our darn earth born brains might just take us further away from God. Then again they might not. Larry might love having a nice green lawn and Danny might buy a lawn chair or two. Who doesn’t love the Little Debbie snack cakes , even if they stopped make the best tasting one years ago.

I just don’t know.

Danny when it’s your turn to speak it’s your choice of how you want to fellowship. That’s what makes it interesting.

Milly said...

Good for you Danny,

I was at the ISWW in Tulsa and a guy friend of mine left the room when a women stepped up to teach. I was a bit puzzled at first then he went over what I was suppose to believe. Hmm.... A....Ok .... Huh?

I feel that we seem to pull scripture out as we feel we need it for a weapon at times. Then again that’s a different discussion.

Danny Kaye said...

"One can’t grow grass and that one never brings anything but your family and a box of Little Debbie snack cakes to an event and now they want to tell me how to worship God..

That sounds pretty angry. Did something I say offend you?

Milly said...

Danny Kaye,

Nope you are still good with me remember it's What If World.

You know how we can be in real life. I recently read a letter written about my church by someone I really care about. He slammed so many people over such silly little things and made it so public. That would be the problem, just like now I was saying what if and you thought “Hey! I brought a great salad last week and we have our eyes on those lawn chairs at The Wal-Mart and the guy needs some help with his lawn that’s all.” See we are so darn human here on this earth we step in toes and assume stuff. In a larger church it happens only I can go home to my green and brown lawn fire up my new grill and make root beer chicken without the angry eyes of those I offended. For me it comes down to a safety issue. My neighbors may talk about me, I don’t really know them I have very little invested in them so I don’t get hurt nor do I get hurt.

I used you two as an illustrations, thanks for playing it gave more incite on why I’m unsure it would work for me. We still love each other right? I’ll send you a moon pie. :-} I'd never wheel ya out.

Milly said...


on toes in toes? Watch where ya step.

My neighbors may talk about me, I don’t really know them I have very little invested in them so I don’t get hurt nor do they get hurt.

Larry said...

On second thought, a nice lawn would be perfect...perhaps the women could do the mowing & edging, as long as there is a male member of the church on the grounds sitting in the shade with a big ol' glass of ice tea to do the supervising duties.

"The women still did some stuff right?"

They were allowed certain privileges such as preparing the pot luck meals, dusting the pews, watering the yard, and setting up the communion meal; don't think these chores were supervised, at least not publicly.

Perhaps if Danny needs wheeling out it might be a job for men only...I will search the scriptures for the correct procedure.

Danny Kaye said...

"Perhaps if Danny needs wheeling out it might be a job for men only..."

Is that a knock on my slightly larger build, Larry? I didn't think the picture on my website revealed that. ;-)

Milly said...

You guys crack me up!

Andreia said...

I have always been intrigued by the "unless a guy is in the room" thing. My mother who is 72 years old and has taught zillions of people about Jesus will willingly shut her mouth if even one "baptized", zitty-nosed 11 year-old boy is in the room. Am I the only one that finds that strange?

I love the little Debbie thing!If I sound like a whiner, Im sure you will let me know.

When my PARENTS were ministering in NM the Sunday lunches were provided by 4 or 5 families. 95% of the church brought nothing and never had any qualms about showing up with their extended families who never came to class or service. I really dont think it was an issue of need as we had been in the homes of many of the folks.

Im all for fellowship, but it bordered on ridiculous. 5 minutes before the last amen the extended families started showing up and lining up.

Of course all those idiosyncricies are what is fundamentally wrong with church. If we could just get rid of the darn people!

That was nothing compared to the woman who thought someone, maybe even her mom who lived with her, was going to poison her. She would pack the entire contents of her fridge and freezer in her car every time she left the house. Because she had so much work to do, she was habitually 45 minutes late to church. She thought anyone trying to get her some help was yet another conspirator.

aahh the memories!

Andreia said...

oooh and Milly

Here is another one for y'all

A few years ago I had been having a little bible study (very informal while our kids gathered) with a friend. She had no religious background whatsoever. Her grandfather had sexually abused her and her husband had left her with 3 small kids. She did not trust men and if you had heard the stories you might have understood.

One day after listening to a radio program she called me and told me that she wanted me to baptize her. She had no connection with a church body and had never been to Church with me. I hem-hawed on the phone and told her I would call her back.

I called my father who wasn't in and I called the minister of the church we were attending. It caused quite a stir.

Eventually, we got together and I explained the controversy and asked her if she would mind if one the ministers baptized her. It took a lot of explaining and I found that I could not justify why I could not actually do the baptism as the miracle isnt in the actual ritual but rather in God's acceptance of the new soul.

Andreia said...

I just reread this and I know you are all gonna slam me on the food. The thing was that the families that DID provide could hardly do so.....I know! I know! They were a great example, blah, blah! So bring on the tomatoes. I have taken cover!

Milly said...


No slamming here by me. I think it’s sad that people take advantage. Those who brought food most likely at the end of the day grumbled a bit, yet still felt it was what they were called to do. We’ve all seen it at one time or another. My family even has a joke about an aunt that did it.

The women that wanted to be Baptized, it is so hard for us to be split on what we’ve been told we must do and what we feel.

Milly said...

Nother typo. Sorry Andreia.

codepoke said...

What a great discussion!

Of course, this whole "What If World" is too ridiculous to discuss, right? Only that's exactly how ridiculous the church is on this subject. The day is coming when everyone will read the scripture to say that women can hold authority in the church. The day is coming.

As for the extended families eating the potluck at the expense of the poor people who donated it every week. With tongue not at all in cheek, and serious in every word, that is something the elders should have stopped the third time it happened. This is not funny, and not good. It is not a ministry. That is just weak men failing to protect the weak among them from predators.

To the lady who wanted to be baptized by a woman, Amen. What a wise decision. I hope she found a way to be baptized that did not terrify her. That false rules might cause us to hurt such a tender person is terrifying.

The Lord will not commend us for the times that we let rules hinder love.

Danny Kaye said...

This may be quite a shock coming from me. But I find nothing wrong with women baptizing the women. There is nothing in the Bible that talks against it. It's just that there is nothing in the Bible that talks for it either.

Here in NH, when a women is going to get baptized, then the women who studied the Bible with her will more than likely be doing the baptism.

And I think that's great!

(And I'm with Codepoke on the family-food. The elders or some other leaders should have spoken out. That said, Andreia is right, the folks who lovingly and consistently provided food shined like Christ. A big AMEN to them.)

Patchouli said...

I know that I am joining this great discussion late, but I do have a question: if women can't baptize men, why can men baptize women?

I know what I believe (Galatians 3:28), but I do want to understand your perspectives.